Ep 2: Why Defense Digital Service Died — And What DOGE Can Learn

Model Citizen — Episode 2

Episode Summary

Former Defense Digital Service director Jennifer Hay joins host Glenn Parham to explain why the Pentagon’s famed “SWAT team of nerds” shut down—and what the new White-House-backed Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) must do to avoid the same fate. From ATO paperwork that literally made code less secure to the politics of “top cover,” they trace DDS’s rise, three mission pivots, and the team decision Jennifer calls “the hardest of my career.”

Glenn’s Hard Questions Answered

Question	Jennifer’s punch-line takeaway
Why couldn’t DDS survive the deferred-resignation program?	High turnover + hiring freeze = a mission-critical team with no backfill.
Is DOGE really to blame—or were other forces at work?	DDS lost senior sponsorship, and “new disruptors didn’t trust us.”
How would you have led differently if you’d known shutdown was coming?	Spend zero energy “normalising”; double-down on pure disruption.

Five Lessons for DOGE (and anyone modernising government IT)

Maintain political capital. Top-cover from SecDef level is oxygen.
Prototype and hand-off. Innovation shops die if they can’t transition MVPs.
Never trade autonomy for conformity. “If you look like the rest of the Pentagon, you’ve already lost.”
Pair empathy with urgency. Doors close fast to teams seen as arrogant outsiders.
Measure outcomes, not head-count. Success = no more $600 M projects that deliver nothing.

Chapter Guide

Time	Chapter
00:00	Cold-open: hardest decision of Jennifer’s career
03:10	DDS origin & “SWAT team of nerds”
05:20	Misconceptions: rules, security, and ATO headaches
11:50	Three evolutions of DDS (SWAT → Crisis → Prototype lab)
17:40	Why DDS shut down
24:40	Blame, hindsight & the DDS team vote
32:40	Political capital vs. budget
38:40	DDS vs DOGE — similarities & blind spots
45:40	Build, buy, or both? Engineers’ real role in gov
53:10	Metrics for reform: ending $600 M boondoggles
57:20	Rapid-fire wrap-up & next steps